ez11 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 the european union is undemocratic why is it undemocratic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 why is it undemocratic ? basically: on an institutional level a number of the european bodies which decide things are unelected, the president is also unelected (its very bureaucratic) while on a rational level.. there are 28 countries populations which have difference preferences etc, but the one body decides the fate of all 28 countries preferences.. look at greece after the crisis, they were made to adopt austerity.. also you could argue that there are loads of laws and regulations which mean that each member state finds it harder to fulfil democracy or their manifesto because of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dex Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Idk what I'm voting for here because of your title there are two ways to interpret this, do I vote "ye" for staying or for leaving? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANIMA VESTRA Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Idk what I'm voting for here because of your title there are two ways to interpret this, do I vote "ye" for staying or for leaving? sorry brain is on drugs prob should have clarified that. ye: stay na: leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apaec Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 i hope it doesn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 sorry brain is on drugs prob should have clarified that. ye: stay na: leave probably the worst poll i've ever seen on osbot for clarity i voted the wrong option because of you!!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I expect them to leave, not quite sure if that's a good idea or not though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez11 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 basically: on an institutional level a number of the european bodies which decide things are unelected, the president is also unelected (its very bureaucratic) while on a rational level.. there are 28 countries populations which have difference preferences etc, but the one body decides the fate of all 28 countries preferences.. look at greece after the crisis, they were made to adopt austerity.. also you could argue that there are loads of laws and regulations which mean that each member state finds it harder to fulfil democracy or their manifesto because of the EU well the 3 highest positions in germany arent directly voted either and i dont see many people claiming germany is undemocratic not sure how people beeing unsatisfied makes it not democratic. There will always be people who dont agree with decisions. German pays lots of fines to the eu because eu regulations arent implemented in germany other countrys can and actually do (afaik) the same if they dont agree with eu regulations. And to be honest i dont see how greece completly failing to manage their economy and then accepting harder regulations for mroe money is undemocratic. Sure greece would have liked it if nazi germany just paid all the old ww2 debts that conveniently remembered right when their country went to shit. They had to opportunity to vote a government that would have elft the eu but in the end they stayed and accepted harder regulations (since greece failed on their own) to get mroe financial help. Your argument doesnt really convince me to be honest. beeing in the eu has advantages but you have to accept what come with them. A country who pays pension to people who have been dead for 30 years because of incompetence now gets forced by eu reulations to stop doing that cant just claim that its undemocratic just because it doesnt go their way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearing Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) this depends on which side of the argument you stand.. but basically the main neutral reasons which can't be debated: british people are proud people, and don't feel european the european union is undemocratic sovereignty is taken away from britain and pooled in the EU the european union will keep increasing in size, potentially becoming a real superstate well, afaik the UK opted out on a shitload of laws, deciding not to introduce them into her law system also, would you rather have is fragmented into "nation states" vying for power? eg: would you rather have the European countries divided, than a strong EU fucking and dictating to the rest of the world ( my wet dream ) , and to the nations that consist her not to mention fucking english language, it is the first amongst the equal ( imagine everybody speaking english in a 100 years ) p.s.: i am just waiting on the old farts dying out and our generation taking over the political system - I expect us to be more corrupt inb4 3rd WW:D Edited June 23, 2016 by gearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) well the 3 highest positions in germany arent directly voted either and i dont see many people claiming germany is undemocratic not sure how people beeing unsatisfied makes it not democratic. There will always be people who dont agree with decisions. German pays lots of fines to the eu because eu regulations arent implemented in germany other countrys can and actually do (afaik) the same if they dont agree with eu regulations. And to be honest i dont see how greece completly failing to manage their economy and then accepting harder regulations for mroe money is undemocratic. Sure greece would have liked it if nazi germany just paid all the old ww2 debts that conveniently remembered right when their country went to shit. They had to opportunity to vote a government that would have elft the eu but in the end they stayed and accepted harder regulations (since greece failed on their own) to get mroe financial help. Your argument doesnt really convince me to be honest. beeing in the eu has advantages but you have to accept what come with them. A country who pays pension to people who have been dead for 30 years because of incompetence now gets forced by eu reulations to stop doing that cant just claim that its undemocratic just because it doesnt go their way It's not my argument mate, I am just trying to explain how it could be viewed as undemocratic. But I guess you don't know what democratic is or at least everyone views it differently, which is your right Edited June 23, 2016 by Scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keven Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 this depends on which side of the argument you stand.. but basically the main neutral reasons which can't be debated: british people are proud people, and don't feel european the european union is undemocratic sovereignty is taken away from britain and pooled in the EU the european union will keep increasing in size, potentially becoming a real superstate educated scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 well the 3 highest positions in germany arent directly voted either and i dont see many people claiming germany is undemocratic not sure how people beeing unsatisfied makes it not democratic. There will always be people who dont agree with decisions. German pays lots of fines to the eu because eu regulations arent implemented in germany other countrys can and actually do (afaik) the same if they dont agree with eu regulations. And to be honest i dont see how greece completly failing to manage their economy and then accepting harder regulations for mroe money is undemocratic. Sure greece would have liked it if nazi germany just paid all the old ww2 debts that conveniently remembered right when their country went to shit. They had to opportunity to vote a government that would have elft the eu but in the end they stayed and accepted harder regulations (since greece failed on their own) to get mroe financial help. Your argument doesnt really convince me to be honest. beeing in the eu has advantages but you have to accept what come with them. A country who pays pension to people who have been dead for 30 years because of incompetence now gets forced by eu reulations to stop doing that cant just claim that its undemocratic just because it doesnt go their way if someone isn't voted for, that's completely undemocratic.. regardless of whether germany accepts it or not it's not the fact they disagree with decisions, its the fact that their preferences (which their home government should enforce) have to be ignored (as there are so many member states with conflicting preferences), which is undemocratic it's because greece was forced into austerity, which is undemocratic, their population didn't vote for austerity governments, but those governments were forced into austerity by germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez11 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) It's not my argument mate, I am just trying to explain how it could be viewed as undemocratic. But I guess you don't know what democratic is or at least everyone views it differently, which is your right if someone isn't voted for, that's completely undemocratic.. regardless of whether germany accepts it or not ? even if you dont directly vote someone you still vote the people that vote them and you know their political goals. you pretty much always know what you get when you vote. If you argue that if someone isnt voted directly it isnt democratic you might aswell move to switzerland to have a direct democracy Edited June 23, 2016 by ez11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 ? even if you dont directly vote someone you still vote the people that vote them and you know their political goals. you pretty much always know what you get when you vote. If you argue that if someone isnt voted directly it isnt democratic you might aswell move to switzerland to have a direct democracy you must be trolling if you're trying to suggest that you're happy with undemocratic bodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razel Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 they're retarded if they leave tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
