2 Questions to the american osbot users here

[iZerker]

All the liberal lefts at my school say to ban AR's I LOL in my head when they say so. As if 35 people didn't die at virgina tech from handguns. The shooting in florida is a result of a system wide failure. The fbi being informed the of the kid and not doing shit about it, the 4 cops the stood outside for four minutes while the kid killed his classmates (shooting went on for six), the fact that his foster family really believed that they had the ONLY key (usually a gun safe comes with two in case you lose one), the school failing to help the little cunt as it was well known he had disturbing thoughts, and last but not least the failure of a fellow classmate to alert, or even attack the shooter AS he was loading the rifle in the hallway. Yes, a fellow classmate walked by him while he was loading the gun and the gunman said "you better get out of here before things get ugly". Its literally a system wide failure.

[iZerker]

22 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Australia's ban on guns had little to no significance in their gun related homicide rate. But they spent 500 million on the project. 

 

Not only that, Australia is a different country with different values. America was founded on guns. These rifles and pistols are another form of self expression and our ability to protect our self expression. A lot of new generation American's do not realize these values I feel, as I see it in political talks at uni. 

[nicksep]

36 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Australia's ban on guns had little to no significance in their gun related homicide rate. But they spent 500 million on the project. 

 

congrats on contracting yourself and literally disproving what you said, incidents went down in double from 1996-2013, while population grew from 18-23mil, that's 40% rise in population. Before it was 100 per 18mil, in 2013 its 47 per 23mil, that's 0.55(reoccurring) vs 0.204 per 100k. 

 

An astonishing 2.72331154411765 times decrease.

 

Funny how the only "source" of evidence proves my point and disproves yours, and yet you call me a leftist and i have done no research and blah blah blah.

 

Anyways was fun talking, guess you closed the discussion with this post

[nicksep]

26 minutes ago, iZerker said:

All the liberal lefts at my school say to ban AR's I LOL in my head when they say so. As if 35 people didn't die at virgina tech from handguns. The shooting in florida is a result of a system wide failure. The fbi being informed the of the kid and not doing shit about it, the 4 cops the stood outside for four minutes while the kid killed his classmates (shooting went on for six), the fact that his foster family really believed that they had the ONLY key (usually a gun safe comes with two in case you lose one), the school failing to help the little cunt as it was well known he had disturbing thoughts, and last but not least the failure of a fellow classmate to alert, or even attack the shooter AS he was loading the rifle in the hallway. Yes, a fellow classmate walked by him while he was loading the gun and the gunman said "you better get out of here before things get ugly". Its literally a system wide failure.

everything in your post seems like an excuse, and is screaming ban guns. no gun in the first place, this wouldn't of happened

[iZerker]

21 minutes ago, nicksep said:

everything in your post seems like an excuse, and is screaming ban guns. no gun in the first place, this wouldn't of happened

You're an idiot lol. America is the gun capital of the world, good luck trying to take away 101 guns per 100 households you'll be looking at the next civil war in america. We have preventive measures that utilized to combat terrorist threats and they FAILED. How do you fight off, or successfully defend your self against someone with a gun? You have a gun. Your level of thought process operates on the concrete operations level and you only think concretely. You fail to understand the values of why we have a second amendment, which is the purpose of protecting ourselves against our own government. It is indoctrinated into the American life that you live on the land of the free, and you have the right to self expression, what protects this right? You owning a gun. This is why it's the second amendment in our bill of rights you have no clue what you are talking about. Please retake a remedial history class and political science class to educate yourself. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by iZerker

[Anomaly]

 

20 minutes ago, nicksep said:

congrats on contracting yourself and literally disproving what you said, incidents went down in double from 1996-2013, while population grew from 18-23mil, that's 40% rise in population. Before it was 100 per 18mil, in 2013 its 47 per 23mil, that's 0.55(reoccurring) vs 0.204 per 100k. 

 

An astonishing 2.72331154411765 times decrease.

 

Funny how the only "source" of evidence proves my point and disproves yours, and yet you call me a leftist and i have done no research and blah blah blah.

 

Anyways was fun talking, guess you closed the discussion with this post

The deviation is negligible considering how low Australia's violence already is..... you're fighting a losing battle my dude. Go watch some Ben Shapiro and / or look at the facts. 

[Jordan]

2 hours ago, Alek said:

I'm not sure you're using due process correctly in that context  Gun laws, just like all other laws, are regulated at the federal, state, and local levels. The state can restrict freedoms but not grant more freedoms than the federal government. For instance, in New York you might just be flat-out rejected for a firearm if you live in New York City, whereas you can get one by driving an hour north in the same state. 

In the case of marijuana use, it's a special case. Here we do in fact have the state granting more freedoms than the federal government. To this day, it is still very illegal for anyone to smoke weed at the federal level. When states started legalizing it, Obama made a mandate saying that he will not prosecute citizens of these crimes they are committing in states where its legal.

Not sure how I got to this topic...

What I mean is that even if people are reported to the FBI like the shooter was in this case, there isn't much they can do to a (so far) law-abiding citizen. We are essentially powerless to do anything before the crime has been committed. Due process is the only roadblock in between not allowing those on the no-fly list from purchasing a gun, for example. 

The problem is that we all can agree we don't want certain anomalies to have guns, but if we aren't going to talk about due process or changing the constitution in some way it's impossible for us to get anywhere.

And yeah, I'm sure states and local governments can enact stricter laws, and they should, but they are still bound by the constitution. I'm also sure there are examples where the government already stomps all over our due process rights (and others), but that's a whole 'nother rabbit hole.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Jordan

[irmagical189]

I own zero guns and I think the US needs not stricter but SMARTER gun control laws and processes. Being reactive towards a specific type of gun isn't productive. 

This being said, I am getting my conceal and carry soon. I think it's hilarious when people bring politics into this discussion because Liberals are the exact reason why I will be arming myself for protection. I am in the pipeline industry. I've been physically assaulted by members of the left, had my property vandalized, and have had guns pulled on me by (ironically) gun owning liberals. 

Another pill of irony is what I do for my job. I work as an in-line pipeline inspector. I carry out federally regulated tests on pipelines to assure they are in working order and NOT leaking. I do not work for an oil company or a pipeline owning company. Yet I have pipeline inspection signs on my vehicle and people get violent without first educating themselves about the reasoning behind me being where I am at that time of day. 

I have also been in areas where liberal protesters have done drive bys on local offices shooting through the windows. I just wish the left would stop trying to be so high and mighty when they are a huge part of the problem. Republicans are part of the problem, not the whole problem

Ok more to consider. The recent Florida school shooting was terrible. Every death and injury that has occurred has been truly undeserved. Supposedly the kid got the weapon to cause this carnage legally. Now here's the kicker. These kids are also eating fucking Tide pods. Like really? Do we honestly believe that guns are the problem when we have these mental midgets committing these acts? Instead let's ask ourselves what can be done or what isn't being done at the school level to prevent these acts of violence. Trump reversing Obama era gun control acts wasn't smart but personally I don't believe that made any difference in the grand scheme of things.

Here in the US the third leading cause of death is doctor and hospital negligance.  At least it was a year or so ago. Think about it. Does that not mean we should abolish doctors?!? I mean come on they are MURDERERS! This is the logic behind banning guns or gun types in general. Realistically speaking the instances of gun violence are performed by a tiny minority. Just like the instances where someone has died due to doctor negligance. 

Bottom line, yes gun laws should be reformed but just remember, anyone can demonize a minority or outlier. Blanket laws and regulations will not stop these isolated incidents. Smarter reform is needed. 

[osbotter656]

6 hours ago, ez11 said:

So I have seen a lot of discussion on news etc about stricter gun control in the US. So Im wondering how many assult rifles does the average american osbot user own and what is your opinion on gun control?

I used to think that the ridiculous murder rate in the us was related to having so many guns, but since switzerland has just as many guns per person but a murderrate that doesnt make it look like a 3rd world country i think america has no gun problem but a people problem.

 

Opinions?

highly doubt any of them actually own assault rifles, as its extensive and expensive and not worth it. now Armalite 15's i personally have 3 in my house, not all mine, we have 2 pistols and 3 shot guns. The issue we have with bans is that there are so many ways to work around them. For example, if you ban bump stocks it doesn't stop someone from doing another action to simulate it, like you can with a simple belt loop and shooting at the hip. If you ban AR15s you have to ban anything close to it, that could includes guns like the mini 14 that would stay legal under current talks. After a while you try to take all rifles, and thats the exact threat the second amendment would stop, which would have more violence as the owners will fight back.

I think another interesting topic is tho, that there are a lot of people on the democrat side that say trump is a dictator/ running a tyrannical government, so why would you hand over your weapons to a person you compare with hitler... If someone can give me insight on that, that'd be great