Anti Ban scripting?

[z10n]

I think mouse movement and Injection are the 2 topics to humanize.

1. use Mirror Mode

2. Mouse movements are detectable, thats why antiban is useless, its mouse movements.

So we need a new mouse, I'd suggest writing your own.

[HeroicRambo]

On 12/22/2018 at 7:18 PM, Malcolm said:

Can anyone give any proof of which bot lasts longer? No.

I don't even write scripts that interact with things exactly the same time apart. 

You can have a bot that does the same thing every time and it goes undetected for months (fluke)

You can also have a bot that has substantial amounts of randomization and it get banned within hours.

Why anybody ever worries about anti-ban or anti-patterns anymore is beyond me. You're going to get banned. I'd never worry about account longevity. Just suicide bot and take your profits.

There's no proof obviously, since none of us work at Jagex (I presume). Your opinion, however, also doesn't count as proof. I'm talking from personal experience, and I've made and experimented with plenty of self-made bots. If you play on mirror mode and use a somewhat randomized (private) script, it's perfectly possible to bot for weeks or even months without ever getting banned. If there's any pattern at all then you're going to get banned eventually yes, some "anti-bans" can also be recognized as patterns, so you have to be smart about it. If none of this matters, why do you think some bots last longer than others? Why can some bots go on forever consistently, while others get banned almost instantly?

You're giving horrible advice and if this is your mindset while making scripts I'd HIGHLY suggest everyone not to buy this guy's scripts.

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[HeroicRambo]

12 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

I just don't believe in anti-ban.

Every customer I get I always tell them that they are likely still going to get banned but I will implement any sort of features they want.

If a customer wants something I have no problem giving it to them.

For you to think "if this is his mindset don't buy a script from him" is absurd. I am entitled to my opinion. My opinion does not devalue my work in any way. 

If a customer wants a features I will give them a feature. What I will not do is lead them to believing that I can write an "undetectable script" and I am straight up with my customers.

Edit: At no point in time here did I give any advice. I gave my opinion. Take it as that.

Of course it has impact on your work. It's common knowledge in the botting community that patterns (timed interactions, mouse movements, walking paths, etc) are a thing, if you refuse to acknowledge that it may very well have impact on your scripts and thus people's accounts. You clearly don't know or don't have enough experience to tell what kind of interactions cause bans (otherwise we wouldn't be having this argument), and you may very well be adding patterns with your added "undetectability".

You're free to believe what you want. It is my opinion that people should probably not buy your scripts if they want a long lasting bot.

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[HeroicRambo]

30 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Oh yes, because you can tell me exactly how people are getting banned?

What kind of interactions are causing bans? 

I never said timed interactions are not a thing, how else would Jagex be able to tell that a bot is a bot? Clearly they don't just say, hey I think he's a bot off of nothing.

I never said I was ever adding any sort of "undetectablility". That is what I DON'T lead my customers to believe.

Just because I believe you will be banned doesn't mean I don't have the ability to come up with some complex randomization. If a customer wants that I'd give it to them regardless of my opinion. Hence your opinion is clearly poor because you're basing work off of an opinion and not actual skill/knowledge of Java.

I have a general idea yes, unlike you, clearly.

"Anti-ban doesn't exist IMO."

You're literally contradicting yourself right now. Randomization IS anti-ban. 

And yeah, you said you'd add features customers wanted, obviously customers want anti-ban so that means you're implementing it without supporting it or even understanding why. Someone who knows that it works would be able to make it (more) effective.

My opinion is based on experience. I've made and tested many private scripts of my own over the years and know exactly what gets you banned, what doesn't, and what improves the longevity of a bot. If anything, it's your opinion that's based on nothing but speculation. If you notice that your bots aren't very long lasting then you may want to look into your own code/theory rather than trying to convince people that it's normal. Lol.

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[Jackthedon]

The term "anti-ban" is so incredibly open to interpretation that discussing it's influence/legitimacy is near impossible.

One man will laugh at the term as a fallacy and another will swear by it, yet they could be relating to completely different things.

Until you both agree on a  clear definition for it then you're chasing rainbows at this point.

[HeroicRambo]

22 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

anti-ban != anti-pattern.

Randomization is anti-patterns not anti-ban.

What do you think anti-ban is? 

• Moving your mouse around?
• Moving your camera randomly? 
• Taking small 1-2 minute breaks within your script?

The above is pointless.

Randomization is not anti-ban. Randomization is when you should be doing something completely different all together breaking any sort of patterns you may have created. Does this sort of thing help? I don't know but I would certainly think this would help more than the things I have listed above.

I think we have actually misunderstood each other. Anti-ban IMO is what I have listed above and what I have listed above are completely garbage and pointless features. 

Anti-pattern is a whole different story and this is where I think we have gotten mixed up is. 

Clearly if you don't produce any definite patterns it would become extremely difficult to determine you're a bot.

I would consider anything that makes the bot less likely to get banned, anti-ban. I don't see how anti-ban is any different than anti-pattern, the point is literally to break up a pattern. And yeah random mouse movements, and small breaks are included imo. Honestly I'm not sure about camera movement, but we know mouse movement is tracked and we know that randomized/human-like breaks are vital to a long lasting script, so why exactly do you think these points are garbage? Obviously I'm assuming the script was decent to start with, none of these things will help a bad script. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[HeroicRambo]

13 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Doing any of the things I listed above do not break any sort of patterns. 

You can move the mouse randomly, move the camera etc but you're still interacting with things the same and doing the task the same way.

Say you're cutting trees.

You go to the tree, cut the tree, bank, interacting with things around the same time (I say around the same time because you're not always interacting with things exactly the same time apart). This task doesn't change.

It does change when you implement the other "garbage feature", breaks. You're breaking up a continuously repeated time frame of interactions in addition to adding more human-like mouse interaction. No human would move and click strictly on certain objects for hours on end without ever moving the mouse otherwise. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[HeroicRambo]

15 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

breaks or 1-2 minute gaps to try and recreate a person going afk for a minute or two?

Clearly if you're botting 24hrs/day you're going to get banned but the 1-2 minute breaks implemented into a script I believe are pointless. 

Once that 1-2 minute break is over you're still going back to doing the same task the same way. You haven't really broken the pattern of how you're doing the task

Using the breaking system that osbot provides has nothing to do with a scripter though. 

 

Yeah, the point is to create more human-like behaviour. No one does a task repeatedly with an exact waiting period in the range of say 300ms and 700ms. Over the course of time this becomes a pattern. Add a randomized 1-2 minute break once in a while and boom, your pattern is broken up (at least for a while). This doesn't break up the pattern of doing your task (this would certainly help as well), this simply breaks up the pattern of activity. I've personally had great success with this method, my longest lasting bots are the more inefficient ones, with breaking periods pretty much adjusted to how I'd actually play myself.

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[HeroicRambo]

8 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

I don't know if you've given this a read or not but I pretty much agree with mostly everything here.

 

I've seen it. He makes some good points about computer/connections always being a little randomized. And yeah those points he mentioned are gimmicks (of which some are questionable) and will never make up for sensible botting/proper scripts, but I do think random mouse movements and breaks help. He's not addressing the human-like aspect, a human will still never have perfect reaction times and do one interaction instantly after the other, even with the connection delay.

[123klaid]

everything needs to be random/new(walking path, reaction speed, clicking spot and so on), once they detect a certain pattern its rip

Edited December 25, 2018 by 123klaid

[poptartjake]

30 minutes ago, 123klaid said:

everything needs to be random/new(walking path, reaction speed, clicking spot and so on), once they detect a certain pattern its rip

And yet, I'm running scripts with anywhere form 6-50+ lines of code typically for 20+ hours a day with almost no randomization, yet my average bot's life is well over 7 days now. 

Jagex's pattern detection is HOT GARBAGE if you think they're actually grabbing most bots via profiling.... If that were true on any decent scale, I'd get banned quickly and easily when running a 72 hour F2P woodcutting bot.. 

[123klaid]

28 minutes ago, poptartjake said:

And yet, I'm running scripts with anywhere form 6-50+ lines of code typically for 20+ hours a day with almost no randomization, yet my average bot's life is well over 7 days now. 

Jagex's pattern detection is HOT GARBAGE if you think they're actually grabbing most bots via profiling.... If that were true on any decent scale, I'd get banned quickly and easily when running a 72 hour F2P woodcutting bot.. 

kk in that case idk, i was thinking humans have hard time having same things occur bots on other hand tend to  repeat same process

is there a way to make bot run on some persons gameplay data, like have bot recording  gameplay data and then use that or like have big database of many gameplay hours overall of multiple people and then use that as script

Edited December 25, 2018 by 123klaid

[poptartjake]

10 minutes ago, 123klaid said:

kk in that case idk, i was thinking humans have hard time having same things occur bots on other hand tend to  repeat same process

is there a way to make bot run on some persons gameplay data, like have bot recording  gameplay data and then use that or like have big database of many gameplay hours overall of multiple people and then use that as script

Yes and no. You're more or less talking about a macro recording program, which is used by people (including myself) for various, usually simple, tasks. With that being said, it's pretty much limited to just that, simple tasks because it's nothing more than pure recording with no intelligent coding behind it, so it has no way to tell if it's actually doing what it's supposed to.

In my experience, though, macro's can be used to bot for quite long periods depending on the task. I recently botted 1-99 fletching on a fresh account using nothing but a macro recorder, still unbanned. 

[HeroicRambo]

2 hours ago, poptartjake said:

And yet, I'm running scripts with anywhere form 6-50+ lines of code typically for 20+ hours a day with almost no randomization, yet my average bot's life is well over 7 days now. 

Jagex's pattern detection is HOT GARBAGE if you think they're actually grabbing most bots via profiling.... If that were true on any decent scale, I'd get banned quickly and easily when running a 72 hour F2P woodcutting bot.. 

You're running an F2P Woodcutter on injection client (assuming since you're not VIP) without any randomization and for 20+ hours a day without getting banned? 

Are you a wizard?

I'm pretty optimistic about bot longevity if you know what you're doing but even I don't buy that...

Edited December 25, 2018 by HeroicRambo

[poptartjake]

20 minutes ago, HeroicRambo said:

You're running an F2P Woodcutter on injection client (assuming since you're not VIP) without any randomization and for 20+ hours a day without getting banned? 

Are you a wizard?

I'm pretty optimistic about bot longevity if you know what you're doing but even I don't buy that...

Not on OSBot or any injection client, for that matter. I don't trust injection right now as I strongly believe that's at least a large portion of why people get banned (combined with time played, patterns, etc). Without injection, I've had very little issues with ban rates in most anything I've done, including stupid suicide tests like the 72 hour F2P woodcutter I mentioned (who later became a Magic Trees bot and still isn't banned).