Offsite Dispute - Need Mods Decision

[Mistamo]

Alright - I purchased an account on the 4th of July off of PlayerAuctions. The owner of the account at the time was, "Impassive" from OSbot. I purchased the account for $350.00 + 1 year of insurance as well as the PlayerAuctions fee. The total amount came out to be $419.25 after the fee's. He gave me his skype username via PA's messaging system, as you can see in this picture (http://gyazo.com/10674a67c491c2c429fceb63c3ebf619). (http://gyazo.com/9d7bafaab5e25f1a08942c1c4749d747)

 

After adding him on skype and talking about the account, he linked me to this forum where he had a post that shows him selling the account (http://gyazo.com/b2bb3167d503072101f24346b3f72fa3).

 

He then later stated that another user on OSbot had sold him the account (http://gyazo.com/b4038b22091f53ef644709b15c42624e)

As you can see, he stated ExtraEnigma had sold him the account, and that he was trusted.

 

I then proceeded to purchase the account from Impassive. Here's the PA link with his offer on it (http://www.playerauctions.com/offer/99-99-99-maxed-melee-account-all-other-stats-lvl-1-ready-to-stake-gwd-afk-trained-using-nmz-95097505/)

 

I received the account information from PlayerAuctions on the night of the 4th of July. I played on the account for about 10 days. On the 10th day of playing on the account, I tried to log in and it said the account was locked. I've purchased 3+ accounts from PA and 2 of them were recovered. After going through that, I automatically assumed that Richie/Impassive was trying to hack the account back from me. After seeing the account was locked, I contacted Impassive via skype once again to inform him (http://gyazo.com/07c09ae3dd3f892591a54575a3ec56f0).

 

Picture of the account being locked (http://gyazo.com/2a05bb72b232e97ece5f472f01417b69) Blanked out the name for security purposes.

 

I requested information so that I could unlock and recover the account myself. He denied me any information saying that I was trying to scam him. When someone sells an account on PlayerAuctions, the seller is OBLIGATED to hand over ALL information for the account that is being sold - seen here (http://gyazo.com/0d71313d4a4004709a29a82d9c475655).

 

After refusing me information so that I could recover the account myself, he informed me that he was going to contact ExtraEnigma to see if he would recover the account for me. I asked him if he would please hurry because I didn't want to wait after paying that much money for an account.

 

A day went by and I still didn't have the account back in my possession. I opened a dispute with Playerauctions informing them that the seller had recovered the account and that I would be wanting a refund. I then registered an account here on OSbot and contacted ExtraEnigma myself, explaining the situation and requesting information from him so I could recover the account myself. He messaged me back informing me that he had recovered the account and was waiting for Richie/Impassive to give him an email so he could change the account's registered email. (http://gyazo.com/9e57b8ec6c61340d721cc99a09c4b839)

 

I added him on skype and gave him my email in which I wanted the account to be registered to - which is shown here (http://gyazo.com/ef8f7fdb3417f7781d8e8f7cb4b7ec19)

 

Richie/Impassive had told him that I opened a dispute and by this time, I was frustrated beyond belief because it had been days since I've played on my account. ExtraEnigma told me that Rich had told him a completely different email address to register to the account other than the one that I had requested, even though I had informed Richie/Impassive that I wanted the email to be changed to such and such (http://gyazo.com/2aea043e678c549f88f7b049710e9b43).

 

After ExtraEnigma received two different emails, he was cautious and kept the account for himself until Impassive had posted a thread on here (OSbot) in which he claimed I was trying to scam. I was pissed at this point and didn't care if I got the account back or my items. All I wanted was to be finished with this and to get my money back. I continued on with the dispute. Weeks went by and I had not gotten my refund - it seems that Impassive was fighting trying to say that I still have ownership of the account and that I'm still trying to scam. PlayerAuctions denied me a refund saying I do not have enough proof that the account was in the possession of Impassive.

 

I contacted ExtraEnigma today explaining what was going on and he told me he had given access to the account back to Impassive - seen here (http://gyazo.com/5b364c4c6ac0bd265e8615e9eafb42db)

 

Here's a picture of me getting denied a refund as well as a statement from Impassive saying he does not have the account and accusing me of being fraudulent - (http://gyazo.com/4625720161bdd0d1b3f5d4513c99353b) (http://gyazo.com/db73aff3866d02aa6904c002992933f4)

 

Impassive has the account, all my items, as well as the money I paid him for the account. I would like the mods to look at ALL of this evidence and inform ExtraEnigma to recover the account and hand it over to me since I paid for it. Thank you for your time and I hope we can come to a solution.

[Mikasa]

I've placed both users into TWC & requested that they post their side of the situation.

@Impassive @extraenigma

[extraenigma]

As with previous dispute regarding this account i am not only ready and willing to cooperate, but also advised the user to open a dispute and solve this matter. the first dispute went pretty much exactly as he described. Rich has the account since i last recovered july 16, as far as i know. his last skype, also july 16, claimed that he had set the account so he could recover. he has not informed me of the account being locked or email/pass change so it is my assumption that he has access currently. I think i still can recover the account if necessary then go on player auctions and prove its stolen from mistamo and get him refunded, then return the account to rich. or what ever is decided here.

if i can just once get the same answer from both of these guys or a mod to tell me how to proceed it would be great.

i dont mind the twc since im not in the market atm, and i understand its protocol with a dispute, however at this point im really more of a witness than anything. If rich doesn't claim ive stolen the account and he says he gave to mistamo id like to see it removed as its bad enough ive had my name drag through the dispute section twice over and account that when i sold went smoothly.

would also be willing to directly give the account to mistamo if that was decided sorry i was misunderstanding what he was asking for

[Mikasa]

Thank you enigma, now we'll wait on Impassive & see what's going on with him.

[Impassive]

This comes at a very inconvenient time as I'm in the last week of a university summer course I'm taking. My exam is this Friday, so my apologies if I am absent until that time if this dispute carries on. However, I'll take the time right now to give a detailed reply on the situation. 

 

Everything I've claimed I will back up with evidence. So stay with me here... I'll start from the very beginning. This is what I planned to tell PA if he actually answered my question on the PA dispute about confirming his skype. So I'll link it all together.

 

 

As he showed, this is how he got my Skype. (Read the CAUTION sign, it isn't even allowed to ask for Skype details. I shouldn't have even gotten involved with him asking for Skype and should have known something fishy was up, but that's me being an idiot, and was the first step into this mess)

 

 

Since he never said his Skype account, this is proof I'm talking to the buyer from PA of the acc.

 

 

Ok now that it's confirmed this is his Skype, I'll start with a few notes.

Mistamo has opened disputes with majority of the accounts he's bought on PA. Here is his fb. (Notice how he drops hundreds of dollars on accounts like it's no one's business. This is because he can refund his payments easily, which I will get into later).

 

 

Here's when I asked him about it before selling because I was cautious:

^His reasoning was a red flag, but I proceeded anyway.

 

 

 

Now, I'd like to comment on what Mistamo said about me requesting a different email. He opened up a dispute, and I don't need to provide proof of that because he already admitted to it. He disputed on PA and he has a 1 year insurance on it. He wanted email set to his AND the $350 back. I requested the email to be MINE because he was disputing against me. It needs to be understood he has 1 year insurance, meaning he can decide in any time between a year from the sale to get his money back. This is the only reason he payed such a ridiculous price for the account, because he is getting his money back.

 

Also, he said his refund was denied, but all he showed was an email that didn't prove anything. He lied about this.

 

It's impossible to scam when you deal with player auctions. It's as simple as this: Why would I recover the account? The money I got from selling it simply will be refunded. And I will get negative FB on PA. I have nothing to gain from scamming the account... There is a YEAR insurance on it. I don't even know why this dispute is being handled here. I told him this here:

 

 

 

Anyways, now I'd like to bring into attention when he went on about his dispute with PA. (Keep in mind time of msg)

 

 

Then, this happens. Keep in mind, his name was not "Joey" originally, it was "Player Auctions Rep" or something, and he had no ava. (Also keep in mind time of msg)

 

 

Now, these next screenshots will speak for themselves...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, this will prove this PA rep impersonator is actually him or his friend.

 

 

And, if you guys think I have the account, then it's pretty messed up. Because I don't. 

 

(I don't know if I could fake the date or something, but I don't know what else would prove that I don't have the account). If a mod wants to teamview me or skype screenshare, I can prove this since I understand it probably could be edited.

 

 

 

The reason I'm fighting the PA dispute is because I'm about to be left with no account, and my $350 taken away from me. I'm dealing with someone who has abused the refund system on PA more than once(chances are, not a majority of people are scammers. Especially knowing he has insurance with the accounts. You CAN'T scam on PA because he has insurance... Therefore, why would all these people on PA recover their accounts from him? The money they got is simply refunded.)

 

Also, I'm dealing with someone who impersonates Player Auction reps, which speaks for itself... He threatened me saying I'm committing a felony, and "this case is going to be handled," and whatever else he said in those screenshots to impersonate a PA rep. I don't know why he thinks that would work, but surely it's illegal because if I were an idiot or young kid, I'd actually have gotten scared and probably would have walked away from this dispute hoping I don't go to jail for committing a "felony." 

 

I want to make it clear for everyone reading this one more time. PA is a site made solely for selling/buying. They have their own dispute system with professional staff that handle this. This dispute shouldn't even be allowed on here. And like I said, if you guys want to go to their website and read about the insurance system, by all means, I invite you to do that. 1 year insurance means the buyer has safety of a refund for one year, so it's impossible for him to get scammed. What I think he is doing is refunding and hoping to keep the account by the owner not knowing correct recovery info, such as in my case. I mean, is it possible that all the people he got "recovered" from are stupid and have no idea what "+ 1 YEAR INSURANCE" means? 

 

There is a dispute opened about this in PA and he isn't even replying to it because he's bringing it here. This doesn't even make any sense... 

 

This has ate a big chunk of my time to put this together and I have an exam friday. So I don't know if I can spend an hour doing this again, so I'm sorry if I'm not available right away. I just wanted to reply because if I didn't, then obviously I'd look like I was guilty.

 

Thanks for reading, sorry if it was essay-like. I just wanted to make things crystal clear.

[Mistamo]

Alright, so let's start off by saying this - Each account I purchased off of PlayerAuctions were indeed recovered by the seller, much like what's going on here.

 

"I mean, is it possible that all the people he got "recovered" from are stupid and have no idea what "+ 1 YEAR INSURANCE" means?"

^ I mean, would someone be so stupid to purchase an account WITHOUT insurance just to lose the money and the account? That's the whole reason PlayerAuctions offers insurance packages. For cases like this, when the account gets locked and or recovered, the buyer can try to dispute and get a refund. You really can not scam via this way - even though you're trying your hardest to get away with $350 and my account.

 

Like I've said before, why would I risk $350 on a scam attempt? That doesn't make sense to me. And yes, I have spent a lot of money on accounts periodically. Not all at once. And why comment about how much I spend? Does that even matter? No, not really.

 

The pictures I've provided of the email's with PlayerAuctions are 100% legit. PlayerAuctions contacts you solely via email with updates on the dispute. They do not contact you any other way. If you read their email, you'd be smart enough to realize that is their official email.

 

I admit, my friend did contact Impassive acting as a PA Rep. Did I tell him too? No. But if I did, there's no rules saying I can't use any means necessary to get information to an account that I had paid $350 for.

 

Impassive does in fact have the account as stated from Enigma. Enigma returned the account to Impassive and he's done whatever with it.

 

You say you told Enigma a different email other than mine because I had a dispute open with PlayerAuctions. You act like a dispute with PlayerAuctions is the end of the world. You can always cancel a dispute if the buyer and seller find a solution to the problem. You kept the account from me, so I opened a dispute and kept it open. Now, PlayerAuctions is denying me a refund because I can't prove that you ACTUALLY have the account. So, I want compensation. I want my account that you have. And don't say you don't have it because we all know you do .

[Mistamo]

He has his money either way & I'm not getting a refund from PlayerAuctions. So the easiest way to settle this is to tell Enigma to recover the account for me and we can be on our way. I have nothing from our trade because you're paranoid, and that's not fair. You've been paid, now let me have my account and we're finished.

[Mistamo]

Also, if you look carefully at while he was explaining, he said this, "I'll start from the very beginning. This is what I planned to tell PA if he actually answered my question on the PA dispute about confirming his skype. So I'll link it all together."

 

He claims that the emails from PA denying me a refund isn't legit, but look at this picture - http://gyazo.com/4625720161bdd0d1b3f5d4513c99353b

 

Read what is said in the last 1st and 2nd to last paragraph.

"I want him to say yes this is my skype or no it is not."

 

He says that it's a fake, but then goes ahead and explains what he would've said if I would've confirmed if it was my skype or not. Hmm, kinda "fishy" huh?

[Impassive]

I didn't claim the email was fake. I said they have not denied your refund. Where does it say your refund is denied?

 

And you can play kid games and say "we all know you have the acc". I get home from university at 3PM eastern. Anytime after that, a mod can teamview or skype screen share me and I'll prove it isn't in my possession if the pictures weren't enough proof.

 

I wouldn't introduce you to my osbot acc and feedback on Skype if I was gonna scam you. I would of kept it strictly on PA. I would of never added you on Skype because it's against the rules. But I did, and made my rep on another site vulnerable where I have fb trading hundreds of dollars worth of GP. I did something I didn't have to by being honest and showing you the osbot thread, and now you're trying to bite me in the ass for it.

 

Your main argument consists of story telling. "Why ___" "Why that?". I really don't want to go there because we'd be here forever.

 

As for your other point that I claim the email to be fake, I never claimed that. I said "He lied about getting denied" which I stand by. Please show me you getting DENIED your refund and I have no worry of you taking your money back, and this dispute will be a lot smoother. 

 

Also, you act like you impersonating a player rep is something we can just overlook. I haven't looked into that, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal. Threatening with committing felonies and what not. Also, I provided evidence so you're not doing anyone a favor by "admitting" to it. If you were really honest, you would of confirmed your skype in the PA dispute before you knew I had evidence, or shed light on the fact you did things you aren't supposed to regarding this issue in your OP. This is the exact reason you never answered the PA dispute where I asked "Can the user confirm this is his skype _______" about 3-4 times(as seen in your screenshot). You just ignored all that... If you said it wasn't your skype, I would of proved it regardless, like I did here.

 

Gone to school now.

 

 

[Pink Clay]

Not sure if it will work but i would talk to this guy from playerauction that goes on sythe to help anyone that has had trouble with PA( he is like high status on playerauctions)

 

http://www.sythe.org/members/326450-playerauctions.html

 

here are the thread he has http://www.sythe.org/search.php?searchid=2301096

 

i would make a thread on the " market disccusion" section since usually he answers threads and not pms but do both

[Mistamo]

http://gyazo.com/db73aff3866d02aa6904c002992933f4

 

Can you not read? Don't know if you know this or not, but reimbursement basically means compensation, or, refund. They clearly state that they are unable to reimburse me even though they want to because of lack of evidence.

[extraenigma]

Question for rich, how long has accounts been locked u confirmed access July 16 and gave no further contact. If recovered or locked why not contact me and get unlocked again?

My thoughts are you posted your acc was stolen on Rs xafter u saw u were in dispute to lock the account. Even when I told u of dispute u said nothing about not having access, and then went on to acuse me of taking the accounts bank and fury. I'm on phone at work now I will post more evidence and re read above more carefully then, I can unlock and take control of account at that time if need be. I think all it comes down to is the results of the p/a dispute.

[Mistamo]

The PA dispute is over. They denied me a refund.

[Impassive]

^All that email says is "we presently don't have enough evidence." If there is actual proof and reassurance that you can't take back the money you paid, then I'll happily come to terms with whatever you like. You keep saying you've been denied your refund, and your proof is that email saying "please provide more evidence". That's not being denied a refund...

 

@Engima, because I haven't log on it. I don't know when it got locked. You can even check last login after you recover it. It's impossible to just lock an account freely as I please, lol. Even if I could magically lock it when the dispute was opened(chances of that...?), I would have no way get it back, since you're the owner. Not to mention that after an account is locked numerous times, Jagex bans it and denies everyone access to it. 

 

 

Anyway @Mistamo, if you are innocent, why did you have to impersonate a PA rep and say I've committed a felony, etc. You would deal with things legitimately if you've done nothing wrong. Someone innocent wouldn't put himself at risk by impersonating, etc. 

 

[Mistamo]

Lol, I will say this one more time for the last time. It wasn't me who impersonated someone. Get that through your head, please. I didn't have my account or a refund then either, so I was indeed innocent and I still am. You're the one who has the account and my money. So, yeah.

 

And they DID decline me a refund. If you would READ the email, you would understand and see what they are telling me they are sorry but they cannot reimburse me. Do I have to explain it to you or something? If I don't have enough evidence right now, am I magically going to get some to help me win the dispute? I doubt it.

 

Like I've said numerous times, you have the money. All I want is the account that I paid for. Once I get the account, it's over. I'm done with you and will only deal with Enigma. You can keep the money and everything as long as you promise to stay out of the account affairs.