Why are Israel bombing innocent people?

[Asap Ferg]

 

I'm confused what you meant by "Are they christans or are they assholes". What's the difference?

 

You can suck a dick for that, labeling a religion as a certain thing is wrong 100% of the time. That's the same as saying all white people are rich, or all black people sell crack. All religions have extremists and you sound like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[guitarfret66]

The issue arose with the conception of the Zionist movement, Jews, Muslims, and Christians all lived in that area peacefully till Israel was formed. That's fact , yes there were religious motives by the Zionists that predate the conception of Israel by thousands of years however the fact remains if it was not for the Zionist movement which helped with the conception of Israel the people living there would still likely be living in peace as they had been.

 

The difference here is you're pointing out the obvious, that pre-existing religious ideology had some influence on this situation. Whereas I am pointing out the actual actions that lead to the situation. Ideology, while very interesting is totally irrelevant unless there are actions involved. So while those that founded the Zionist movement may have been holding these ideals for generations, it really didn't matter till it was acted upon.

 

If you're talking about "actions" then technically the actions of all parties date back to BC. And no where's your logic? Ideology is what leads to the actions sooo ideology is a big part in the equation...

 

Because they're scums

 

So is most of the world...

 

Its Jews, the main reason why America and UK is not reacting to this crisis is because Jews are running both America and the UK..

 

Its clear that Israel will win the war since America has been sending them weapons and ammunation, God save Palestine, and get rid of these non human jews.

 

I really hope that is a joke. Because if not, your stupidity is the main reason for my signature....

[Khaleesi]

Hate and religion ... -_-

[Molly]

If you're talking about "actions" then technically the actions of all parties date back to BC. And no where's your logic? Ideology is what leads to the actions sooo ideology is a big part in the equation...

 

You just proved what I said lol. There is no sense arguing here, here is what happened: 

 

1. Various religions were formed long ago.

2. Many things happened over a few thousand years that influenced beliefs in the religions, and many wars were fought.

3. Eventually the violence in the area settled down and Muslims, Jews, Christians were living in peace for many years.

4. In the 1890's the Zionist movement was founded with the intent of "taking back" what is now Israel and Palestine.

5. In 1947 Israel was formed and ever since the area has been a clusterfuck of horrible atrocities.

 

Once again, as you can see the problem was the "action" of the Zionist movement to influence the conception of Israel.

 

Let me give you an analogy in regards to action and ideology. I can be a racist, I can talk to my friends about my racist views and can wholeheartedly believe in racism as correct. If I live my whole life with those views and never once act on them then the beliefs I held are totally irrelevant to the whole scheme of things because they are simply thoughts. However, if I decide to act on those beliefs then and only then do the beliefs become relevant because of an action. 

 

When talking about why this whole situation is occurring, yes it is important to note that religious ideology is at the root of the situation however, more important are the actions that occurred and lead to the situation. 

 

Another example for you, if the ideologies that lead to the Holocaust were never acted upon and remained just thoughts what relevance would they have? None. It is only when actions occur that ideology actually matters.

 

Edit: Also it is important to note that it wasn't just "Jews" that formed Israel or wanted to "take back their land" , it was the Zionist movement which is actually relatively young as it was formed in the 1890's.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Molly

[guitarfret66]

You can suck a dick for that, labeling a religion as a certain thing is wrong 100% of the time. That's the same as saying all white people are rich, or all black people sell crack. All religions have extremists and you sound like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

That made no sense.... Not really sure how to respond to that lol. 

 

I don't really feel like getting in a religious debate so I won't argue.

You just proved what I said lol. There is no sense arguing here, here is what happened: 

 

Once again, as you can see the problem was the "action" of the Zionist movement to influence the conception of Israel.

 

Let me give you an analogy in regards to action and ideology. I can be a racist, I can talk to my friends about my racist views and can wholeheartedly believe in racism as correct. If I live my whole life with those views and never once act on them then the beliefs I held are totally irrelevant to the whole scheme of things because they are simply thoughts. However, if I decide to act on those beliefs then and only then do the beliefs become relevant because of an action. 

 

When talking about why this whole situation is occurring, yes it is important to note that religious ideology is at the root of the situation however, more important are the actions that occurred and lead to the situation. 

 

Another example for you, if the ideologies that lead to the Holocaust were never acted upon and remained just thoughts what relevance would they have? None. It is only when actions occur that ideology actually matters.

 

Edit: Also it is important to note that it wasn't just "Jews" that formed Israel or wanted to "take back their land" , it was the Zionist movement which is actually relatively young as it was formed in the 1890's.

 

You were saying the Zionist movement and as you put it "the actions" is what caused everything. You just now said this in addition:

 

1. Various religions were formed long ago.

2. Many things happened over a few thousand years that influenced beliefs in the religions, and many wars were fought.

3. Eventually the violence in the area settled down and Muslims, Jews, Christians were living in peace for many years.

4. In the 1890's the Zionist movement was founded with the intent of "taking back" what is now Israel and Palestine.

5. In 1947 Israel was formed and ever since the area has been a clusterfuck of horrible atrocities.

[Molly]

That made no sense.... Not really sure how to respond to that lol. 

 

I don't really feel like getting in a religious debate so I won't argue.

 

You were saying the Zionist movement and as you put it "the actions" is what caused everything. You just now said this in addition:

 

1. Various religions were formed long ago.

2. Many things happened over a few thousand years that influenced beliefs in the religions, and many wars were fought.

3. Eventually the violence in the area settled down and Muslims, Jews, Christians were living in peace for many years.

4. In the 1890's the Zionist movement was founded with the intent of "taking back" what is now Israel and Palestine.

5. In 1947 Israel was formed and ever since the area has been a clusterfuck of horrible atrocities.

 

Yes, the point of adding that was to show how irrelevant the stuff in the past that you eluded to was, because there was peace for a long time until the Zionists came into the mix. So.... the point remains until the Zionists the area was just fine, they were the start of the mayhem.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove here, the history on the area is very clear. The situation did not come about in mysterious ways, we know exactly what led to the current situation.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Molly

[Jordan]

Why is*

[Pecman]

The New Holocaust is happening in Palestine

[guitarfret66]

Why is*

 

^^^Been wanting to say that the whole time. Not sure if you can change title though.

 

Yes, the point of adding that was to show how irrelevant the stuff in the past that you eluded to was, because there was peace for a long time until the Zionists came into the mix. So.... the point remains until the Zionists the area was just fine, they were the start of the mayhem.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove here, the history on the area is very clear. The situation did not come about in mysterious ways, we know exactly what led to the current situation.

 

The past is relevant. The past builds up to lead to the events. If it was irrelevant then it means it has no correlation to everything else which wouldn't make any sense.

 

You're saying 2 different things.

1.  how irrelevant the stuff in the past
2. The past led up to the Zionist movement and everything that is current.

If the past is the cause with an effect, then obviously it is relevant.

 

the history on the area is very clear. The situation did not come about in mysterious ways, we know exactly what led to the current situation.

Wrong^^^

It is not accurate what happened thousands of years ago.

Nothing about history is "very clear". We only go off of stories and what people say.

[Chaotic ezio]

No one likes jews lmfao. So sad

[Molly]

^^^Been wanting to say that the whole time. Not sure if you can change title though.

 

 

The past is relevant. The past builds up to lead to the events. If it was irrelevant then it means it has no correlation to everything else which wouldn't make any sense.

 

You're saying 2 different things.

1.  how irrelevant the stuff in the past
2. The past led up to the Zionist movement and everything that is current.

If the past is the cause with an effect, then obviously it is relevant.

 

the history on the area is very clear. The situation did not come about in mysterious ways, we know exactly what led to the current situation.

Wrong^^^

It is not accurate what happened thousands of years ago.

Nothing about history is "very clear". We only go off of stories and what people say.

You're pretty dense, what I was saying was pretty clear. In this particular situation the events in the past were not relevant, they occurred, problems were resolved and the area was peaceful. At that point all those past events you point to lead to that peace. The area was then peaceful until the Zionists move in, the Zionist movement led to the creation of Israel, directly causing what is going on now. The comment about the history of the area being clear was clearly in relation to recent, recorded history in regards to when the Zionist movement was started and when Israel came into existence. You are reading pretty far into things and taking them entirely out of context.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Molly

[guitarfret66]

You're pretty dense, what I was saying was pretty clear. In this particular situation the events in the past were not relevant, they occurred, problems were resolved and the area was peaceful. At that point all those past events you point to lead to that peace. The area was then peaceful until the Zionists move in, the Zionist movement led to the creation of Israel, directly causing what is going on now. The comment about the history of the area being clear was clearly in relation to recent, recorded history in regards to when the Zionist movement was started and when Israel came into existence. You are reading pretty far into things and taking them entirely out of context.

You're just not considering what I'm saying. You're only looking at the arguement from your point of view.

Let me explain.

bad stuff_______________peace _____________ bad stuff ______________ peace ... [repeat]

............^ time goes on^.........^ time goes on^..............^ time goes on^

It's just a repetitive cycle and the issue with the middle east and religions isn't the only cycle in which this happens. But to stay on topic, it is all relevant. To say it's not relevant is to say any mistakes in the past aren't relevant. If you learn from your mistakes and correct them you can either end or delay the cycle.

Although issues like this will never be solved by humanity.

Edited July 21, 2014 by guitarfret66

[Molly]

You're just not considering what I'm saying. You're only looking at the arguement from your point of view.

Let me explain.

bad stuff_______________peace _____________ bad stuff ______________ peace ... [repeat]

............^ time goes on^.........^ time goes on^..............^ time goes on^

It's just a repetitive cycle and the issue with the middle east and religions isn't the only cycle in which this happens. But to stay on topic, it is all relevant. To say it's not relevant is to say any mistakes in the past aren't relevant. If you learn from your mistakes and correct them you can either end or delay the cycle.

Although issues like this will never be solved by humanity.

 

I agree that there is a trend in that area with periods of peace then war that has been occurring for a long time now. However there is often no correlation between the different periods of war or peace as far as reasons which is what I meant when I said its not relevant. It is reasonable to suggest simply by looking at history that eventually the peace will end and lead to war, then war will end and lead to peace etc. However typically its not for reasons related its for different reasons.

 

The problem there now isn't because of people being pissed off they lost a war hundreds of years ago and seeking retaliation, it was simply a movement of extremists(the Zionists) wanting the land for themselves. If the the Zionist movement started because of Jewish people losing a war some time ago or land being stolen, we could easily say there is a correlation but there doesn't appear to be one. The whole scenario just looks like a power-grab by an extremist movement.

 

As far as it would seem theres no mistake in the past that could have prevented this, as sad as it is like you said issues like this will never be solved by humanity. Where there is financial or power gain there will be someone plotting to obtain the money or power because that seems to be human nature.

 

I think our discussion was an entire misunderstanding, I do agree past events are important to consider in all cases but it just appears in this case that you really cant draw a correlation between past events and what caused the current mess. We really couldn't have asked for a more ideal situation than how Palestine was prior to the creation of Israel, but there always has to be someone to fuck up something nice it seems thats one thing for sure that we can see happen time and time again throughout history.

[guitarfret66]

 

I agree that there is a trend in that area with periods of peace then war that has been occurring for a long time now. However there is often no correlation between the different periods of war or peace as far as reasons which is what I meant when I said its not relevant. It is reasonable to suggest simply by looking at history that eventually the peace will end and lead to war, then war will end and lead to peace etc. However typically its not for reasons related its for different reasons.

 

The problem there now isn't because of people being pissed off they lost a war hundreds of years ago and seeking retaliation, it was simply a movement of extremists(the Zionists) wanting the land for themselves. If the the Zionist movement started because of Jewish people losing a war some time ago or land being stolen, we could easily say there is a correlation but there doesn't appear to be one. The whole scenario just looks like a power-grab by an extremist movement.

As far as it would seem theres no mistake in the past that could have prevented this, as sad as it is like you said issues like this will never be solved by humanity. Where there is financial or power gain there will be someone plotting to obtain the money or power because that seems to be human nature.

 

I think our discussion was an entire misunderstanding, I do agree past events are important to consider in all cases but it just appears in this case that you really cant draw a correlation between past events and what caused the current mess. We really couldn't have asked for a more ideal situation than how Palestine was prior to the creation of Israel, but there always has to be someone to fuck up something nice it seems thats one thing for sure that we can see happen time and time again throughout history.

Agreed. Sorry if I ever came across as rude. It was an entire misunderstanding. But a good debate and ending differently then many of my other debates which don't always end peacefully and RARELY with a real conclusion.

Humanity is a lost cause. It's only a matter of time until we kill ourselves or a higher intelligence (hopefully a altruistic and logical AI that considers everything in the universe and benefiting everything other than itself) kill us off to restore peace and prevent the world and whatever else humanity has the potential to fuck up.

Or we get killed off by a even more selfish kind like you see in all the movies like War of the Worlds which hopefully doesn't happen.

And if we are alone in the universe...well I will always stick to my signature.

Edited July 21, 2014 by guitarfret66

[Varc]

This world will only see sense when we cut down the last tree and realise that money cannot provide us with oxygen. The world is so corrupt and we don't know half of the things that go on behind the scenes (I doubt we would want to tbh).  The thing I don't understand is when people have the ideology that if another civilisation came to earth that they would want to wipe us out, sure they could; but humans created the concept of war who is to say that their way of thinking is the same as ours. As long as there are humans on the earth there will always be wars. Bit off topic I know but interesting thought.