Why I think that Jagex isn't using something to monitor all accounts at all times(Mouse and keyboard).

[Karthus NA]

1 minute ago, Knuckolls said:

Yup! That's who I was trying to think of, Yeah so now with your previous statements and already there being a history of at least 1 Jmod using glitches to benefit himself who knows what some of these Jmods are doing. Its very possible that they are abusing their power and RWTing themselves... 



Just some food for thought. Good topic that you brought up.

 

Arigato gozaimasu! Hope you're enjoying the Kobe Beef in Japan

[lummyboy]

1 hour ago, Juggles said:

The bot busting team is very small. Im not sure on the exact ratio but its probably like 1-5k bots per bot buster. No one can keep track of 1-5k bots. 

There's probably more bots than this but that's just an estimate 

true why not use numbers. lets say theres 500-800 players each world roughly so we'll even it out at 650 each world and it drops to 150-450 after an update that stops us all from botting round it to 300

42700 bots on at each given time (dat shit blows my mind) - 2700 randoms that will just jump off when logged out for an update that might fudge the numbers (plus id rather work with a nice number)

40k bots even with a team of 8, youre right, thats hella difficult

but the thing is 30k will be farming, realistically probably 35k but im happy with an ez number again

farms are full of easily detected easily chain banned accs that all have links to each other by whatever means, I wouldn't know too much in this area as I bot casually but judging by the forum posts these are all automated bans that get a brief check before being permed without hesitation so lets take 1 man from the team of 8 and say hes dedicated to manually review these mass bans even if he had a hand from another there would still be 6 left to deal with the casuals

6 people to manually check up on acc's spat out to them from some bot busting algorithm we are yet to determine. (lets say... the overall time that week, too heavily scheduled play times maybe too unscheduled (night time botting), ip change, ip sharing, over a certain amount of macro reports, maybe the qp to lvl ratio) who knows?

but using the math we have been there's only 10k acc's between 6 people, however there's 24 hours in a day and there're bots that are offline, that's a bad sample now, so ill bump it to 40k splitting each acc into 6 hr a day intervals 

anyway tho 40k casuals that aren't as easily banned, most of em will bot safe id say 30k have been around long enough to know what works for them, 10k are fucking clueless and put themselves in line to be manually reviewed bc the algorithm flagged them , 6 people vs a list of 10k accs in a day. 1 person vs 1.7k flagged bots for the day. lets say at jagex they work an 8 hr shift. lets go back to the original argument and say they manually go over each bot (how long does it take us to identify a script? 1-2 mins?) you'd be ignorant af to think they havnt done there homework on all the scripts on the market, id say they can probably identify a bot in the same ammount of time as us if not less. so lets break 8 hrs into mins 8x60=480 bans done manually watching screens and making judgment calls on 2 day bans or perms. that would be roughly a 1/4 of the day's target of 1.7k shortlisted bans each.

but is it really that far-fetched to think that maybe 2880/10000 manual bans get dished out a day? maybe the other 7120 get a strike by there name that easily puts them closer to the top of the list next time the algorithm accuses them of botting.

it would explain the roll of the dice type of feeling linked to heavy botting that you would think you'd get banned for (some survive some dont). don't rule out what is still feasible. i mean whos to say this doesn't happen. you've worked at jagex no? ....

 

dismissing this is counterproductive unless its been proven otherwise, the conspiracy still stands strong and doesn't need someone with influence debunking it. this is just my 2 cents on the possible reasoning that mouse recorders never get banned, bc whos gon watch a human-like movement four 30 mins tryna find the loop? they'd run this alleged client detector on the acc and it would come up clean. im by no means smarter than the next mans and dont claim to be, in fact ive been blazed all morning and couldnt even punctuate this reply if i tried, and maybe nothing i said will make sense tomorrow but its 4:30 am over here and i feel woke rn.

ba dum tisss

 

[extatus]

hey,  i have no idea what kind of client side data gets passed to jagex, but i'm pretty sure they aren't watching your screens. 

they have large volume of players, and i also think the volume of data is not the biggest worry; think about the processing power needed for monitoring 30k players at the time. 

A classical computer wouldn't be enough for this amt. of work. Instead, they have an emphasis on hotzones (common bot areas) and  they make use  of filters. So a player that is new, uses weird connection (not home IP), stars walking through paths that are extremely commonplace etc. gets flagged instantly. Then it will be monitored more closely, to squeeze out whatever evidence needed for their criteria. (just making this up, but to give a rough idea). Anyway, if the players are grouped in levels of being "bot like", instead of monitoring 30k at the time,then jagex could organize their resources much more efficiently. Less suspicious group would gather less data and the opposite would apply.

I suggest reading logicfurys thread, he has a pretty good approach to how jagex anti ban team would operate.

Edited August 30, 2018 by viking

[Logicfury]

12 hours ago, Juggles said:

Mod do not watch your screens. I repeat, they do not watch your screens. There are thousands of bots, why would they choose to watch one single screen to check? 
They have an automated system that can detect botting. 

Juggles with all due respect, I think you are overestimating how much time it takes for one person to screen a few thousand accounts in a log once data is organized and streamlined efficiently. Accounts are almost certainly batched automatically through algorithms written by their data scientists, but it is my belief and Alek's as well that the actual ban is always done manually. The algorithm likely batches  accounts based on a list of criteria (some obvious such as total time online, efficiency of exp etc) and how many standard deviations the account falls relative to the norm (re: normal distributions / simple statistical analysis). For instance, accounts that fall within the 95th percentile could require little to no manual oversight to ban (1 check-off for multiple accounts on the same IP, or multiple accounts that exhibit the same patterns botting the same skill), while other accounts that bot more carefully (diversified / changing tasks regularly) may be batched differently and require a more in-depth overview. 

This is a hypothetical example of a batch of accounts that could require little to no oversight to ban that may or may not be representative of Jagex's actual criteria:

1) Unidentified third-party client (Not OS Buddy / Runelite): Y/N

2) Accounts created close to the same date: Y/N

3) Account < 6 months old: Y/N

4) Accounts connected to servers at the same time: Y/N

5) Total time online > X: Y/N

6) Botting the same skill: Y/N

7) Similar exp efficiency (within 1 standard deviation): Y/N

@OP, for a more in-depth discussion please see: 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Logicfury

[THS]

For a company making this much money, logging 1.5tb a day ain't shit lol.

Also hi jmods.

 

Hilarious to think people make these threads with the knowledge that they might be fuelling the fire

Edited August 30, 2018 by THS

[SpiritualAbyss]

It amazes me after all these years and we still have no clue about JaGex botting detection system.  Why do you guys think this is possble? Does their high pay employee's simply have more expterise in this field compared to experienced coders/script writers?   

  Has anyone ever tried corrupting one of their employee's? (offering a nice amount of money for some inside information)  

  

There has to be at least 1 corrupt worker who's doing something on the side for extra money.   

  

At the end of the day, They may even have a detection system that's even better than we think and they 'go easy' on botters to maintain a stable renewing of memberships since getting rid of all botters would pretty much kill this game

[RoundBox]

I'm loving the conversations that this topic has generated. This is all very interesting

 

[fhhhphgj]

4 hours ago, SpiritualAbyss said:

There has to be at least 1 corrupt worker who's doing something on the side for extra money.   

There was Mod Infinity and Mod Reach.

[Blutch]

regardless of what you're doing using 3 minute recordings are just lazy, i have 1700total accounts that are 90% autoclicked and i have gotten 1day bans due to short recordings. usually go for atleast 15 minutes.