However there is no proof that the nearly perfect vacuums that are found in space were created the same way scientist make them here on earth.

 

 

Something might actually be able to come forward out of nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

This is my point. Scientific belief completely relies on faith as well. That a "magic vacuum" a "foreign entity" exists even though we have never seen or have no proof of it. Which is why it is so hypocritical to say that "God does Not exist", as a statement, rather than saying "Well, even though we have hard evidence through science, it is still possible that there could be a creator out there somewhere."

 

 

Science doesn't rely on faith but on theories, the difference between religion and science is that scientists try to prove their claims whereas religion doesn't  (don't bring up Aquinas or any other church-related philosopher; their mind games don't count as scientific proof).

 

"Magic vacuum" common really? No proof? It has actually been created by man and observed in space:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum

And you can't see a vacuum considering it's lack of matter.

 

Also.. I never excluded the possibility of divine existence:

 

The initial cause might have been "divine creation".

 

 

Read my shit before you call me a hypocrite thank you very much.

Edited November 21, 201312 yr by bjeurn

 

 

However there is no proof that the nearly perfect vacuums that are found in space were created the same way scientist make them here on earth.

 

 

Something might actually be able to come forward out of nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

This is my point. Scientific belief completely relies on faith as well. That a "magic vacuum" a "foreign entity" exists even though we have never seen or have no proof of it. Which is why it is so hypocritical to say that "God does Not exist", as a statement, rather than saying "Well, even though we have hard evidence through science, it is still possible that there could be a creator out there somewhere."

 

 

Science doesn't rely on faith but on theories, the difference between religion and science is that scientists try to prove their claims whereas religion doesn't  (don't bring up Aquinas or any other church-related philosopher; their mind games don't count as scientific proof).

 

"Magic vacuum" common really? No proof? It has actually been created by man and observed in space:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum

And you can't see a vacuum considering it's lack of matter.

 

Also.. I never excluded the possibility of divine existence:

 

The initial cause might have been "divine creation".

 

 

Read my shit before you call me a hypocrite thank you very much.

 

I never called you a hypocrite. Simmer down.

 

 

According to science, matter cannot be created nor can it be destroyed. If that's so, then where did this all come from?

 

 

We’ve all heard it before.  The classic argument from a theist’s perspective on why a god must have created our universe.  I can’t tell you how many times religious people have said to me: “well, can you think of one example where something comes from nothing in the universe?”

 

They are correct in noting that “something cannot be created from nothing” within our known universe, as far as we have been able to demonstrate through scientific inquiry.  However, when considering the big bang and the origins of our known universe, we cannot apply the laws of physics WITHIN the known universe to that which act OUTSIDE the known universe.  Before the start of our universe, it is plausible that other laws of “physics” governed and dictated how our universe singularity began and where the energy and material originated from.

 

Additionally, when a theist states that “something cannot come from nothing” and then states that a god created the known universe, he still hasn’t solved his own question.  Is god “something”?  Why, yes, god is something.  Then where did he come from?  Theists usually state that god is eternal, and always existed and was never created.  This statement violates the first assumption they make that “something cannot come from nothing”.  God is a “something” and they are supposing he came from “nothing”.  All this supposing gets us nowhere, which is why we turn to evidence and the scientific method of inquiry to find answers.  When we do not know the answer, we continue searching, testing and finding evidence for what is actually real, while admitting that we do not know the answer until we have evidence.

 

There is a notable phenomenon observed in quantum mechanics.  Particles composed of quarks such as protons, neutrons, positrons, etc have been observed popping into existence from nowhere and leaving again just as fast.  Such particles “appear” in a vacuum where no other matter or energy exists.  At the quantum level, even empty space is not truly empty but is seething with activity;  particles are constantly popping in and out of existence everywhere.  In pair creation, a particle and its antimatter partner seem to “appear”  (see Bosons).  This is cutting edge quantum mechanics research.  The Large Hadron Collider in Switzlerand was built and is just recently up and running in the search for the Higgs-Boson particle.

 

We cannot apply the laws of this universe to that which acted outside of the universe.  The laws that hold true within the bubble of our universe may not govern outside the bounds of this universe.  It is plausible that there are endless numbers of other universes “floating” about and our universe is just one of them.  Within each of these multi-verses different laws and properties may govern the interactions within.  This “Multiverse theory” is the leading theory in the scientific cosmology community, though it remains untested and still a speculation.  (Though this speculation is based on other observations and evidence of how our universe operates).  It is probable that the “laws” that act outside our bubble universe commonly call into existence something from nothing.  It is also possible that our universe is eternal, in the sense that it cycles through stages.  We cannot say with certainty so  it is irresponsible to jump to a conclusion without the ability to test or prove it to be false or true.  This applies to the multi-verse theory and the theory of a god or gods.

^ Finally someone who makes sense.

its called wikipedia ^

^doesn't matter

its called wikipedia ^

 

I never use wikipedia

Are you an astronomer? Cause if you are, I don't know what your doing on a botting forum lol.

 

 

 

According to science, matter cannot be created nor can it be destroyed. If that's so, then where did this all come from?

 

 

We’ve all heard it before.  The classic argument from a theist’s perspective on why a god must have created our universe.  I can’t tell you how many times religious people have said to me: “well, can you think of one example where something comes from nothing in the universe?”

 

They are correct in noting that “something cannot be created from nothing” within our known universe, as far as we have been able to demonstrate through scientific inquiry.  However, when considering the big bang and the origins of our known universe, we cannot apply the laws of physics WITHIN the known universe to that which act OUTSIDE the known universe.  Before the start of our universe, it is plausible that other laws of “physics” governed and dictated how our universe singularity began and where the energy and material originated from.

 

Additionally, when a theist states that “something cannot come from nothing” and then states that a god created the known universe, he still hasn’t solved his own question.  Is god “something”?  Why, yes, god is something.  Then where did he come from?  Theists usually state that god is eternal, and always existed and was never created.  This statement violates the first assumption they make that “something cannot come from nothing”.  God is a “something” and they are supposing he came from “nothing”.  All this supposing gets us nowhere, which is why we turn to evidence and the scientific method of inquiry to find answers.  When we do not know the answer, we continue searching, testing and finding evidence for what is actually real, while admitting that we do not know the answer until we have evidence.

 

There is a notable phenomenon observed in quantum mechanics.  Particles composed of quarks such as protons, neutrons, positrons, etc have been observed popping into existence from nowhere and leaving again just as fast.  Such particles “appear” in a vacuum where no other matter or energy exists.  At the quantum level, even empty space is not truly empty but is seething with activity;  particles are constantly popping in and out of existence everywhere.  In pair creation, a particle and its antimatter partner seem to “appear”  (see Bosons).  This is cutting edge quantum mechanics research.  The Large Hadron Collider in Switzlerand was built and is just recently up and running in the search for the Higgs-Boson particle.

 

We cannot apply the laws of this universe to that which acted outside of the universe.  The laws that hold true within the bubble of our universe may not govern outside the bounds of this universe.  It is plausible that there are endless numbers of other universes “floating” about and our universe is just one of them.  Within each of these multi-verses different laws and properties may govern the interactions within.  This “Multiverse theory” is the leading theory in the scientific cosmology community, though it remains untested and still a speculation.  (Though this speculation is based on other observations and evidence of how our universe operates).  It is probable that the “laws” that act outside our bubble universe commonly call into existence something from nothing.  It is also possible that our universe is eternal, in the sense that it cycles through stages.  We cannot say with certainty so  it is irresponsible to jump to a conclusion without the ability to test or prove it to be false or true.  This applies to the multi-verse theory and the theory of a god or gods.

 

I dont thing you read what I said. 

 

If he created everything around us, everything we see and do not see, and one of those foundational principles of the universe is that everything must have a cause, it still does not mean that the creator is affected by it. Creator > Creation. So therefore the creator does not necessarily need to have something that caused it to come into existence. He/She/It is not subject to the laws of his/her/its own creation

 

 

Edited November 22, 201312 yr by Divvy

Maybe he's just sleeping.

 

 

How can you guys say God doesn't exist? What are you going to say that millenniums ago people randomly made up this spiritual being? We have no true knowledge of the past, all we know is the present. We don't even know how the pyramids in Egypt were created and yet you atheists want to come tell us how humans and life were created? Give me a break. You say we believe in a fairy tale but evaluate yourself first. You believe in fairy tales too. The fairy tale of the big bang theory, the fairy tale of evolution, etc. Look at your own body. It is the most perfect and most complex thing of anything on this planet. But what created it? A big bang of energy that came out of nothing? How can there be energy when there is nothing? Yes we have a heart that pumps our blood, a brain that stimulates our senses, but how do these organs have the effect and function that they do? We have a soul, we are not robots. If science was truly the answer to everything, then with science we can build and create our own human beings. We would be able to build hearts, create blood, build a liver, but we can't. We can't reproduce any part of the human body but yet us humans are so intellectual to the point where we can believe because of science God doesn't exist? With science, we can only build robots, not humans. God created everything, but you guys call everything science.

 

What are you going to say that how does God let all these poor children starve and die? Well no. It is the ATHEIST politicians and billionaires that let these children starve. All the problems of the world are our own fault. Mainly the atheists who run our world. God simply put us on this earth and gave us free will. What we did with that free will? Look at the world today. God didn't make Africa or Latin America full of starvation and disease. The British and Europeans did when they invaded. God didn't put homeless people in our society. The way us humans set up our laws and society did that. God gave us free will.

 

Are you going to tell me about the theory of evolution where we all started out as monkeys and then turned into neanderthals and then kept fucking each other until we became the intellectual and rational beings that we are today? But yet us believers are the ones who believe in fairy tales? There's millions of monkey's and billions of humans, but where are the beings in between? Evolution my ass. Bring me a monkey and let him have sex with other monkeys until a  human is born and then I'll believe you. Until then your fairy tale sounds as stupid to me as mine does to you. We were made in the image of the Lord, that is why it is humans who dominate the earth. Not monkeys or pigs or cows. God put humans on the earth and gave the earth and all its resources to use as we please. At first, we respected this and only took from the earth what we needed. But in the age where atheism grew large, that is when we became greedy. That is when people began to die for material wealth.

 

You think we sound stupid? Look at yourselves. The truth is, the people who truly run the world are atheists. They try to make you lose your faith so that we forget God's teachings and values and to most people it works. When you pray to God, you don't ask for specific things and expect him to grant them to you. God doesn't work like that, he is not a genie. You have to think of all the things that you're truly blessed to have that God has given you, and 99% of the time the good in our life overrides the bad. Everyone that is reading this has enough to eat, enough to live, enough to do whatever we want.  We all have bad things in our life, some a lot worse than others. For many people I can understand why they lose faith in God because of their experiences. God gives his strongest battles to the strongest soldiers. There is always light at the end of the tunnel.

 

We can say that God is dead. But we killed God. We killed God because we live a in comfortable home only because others in different continents live in poverty. Without them, we would not have our luxuries that we have today. We killed God because a sweater that has Gucci or Louis Vuitton stamped on it is worth more than a regular sweater that are only meant to keep us warm. We killed God because when we get rich, we spend our money on diamonds and cars while there are people dying on the other side of the world. We killed God because our society is built on individual happiness rather than the collective happiness of everyone. We live in a world where we only care about ourselves, and as long as we are fine then someone else dying of hunger isn't our problem. But yet if we were that person dying of hunger we would be wishing for help. But that help will never come, why? Because atheist politicians and billionaires gotta make their cash. God died a long time ago. God exists, just not in our society.

How can you guys say God doesn't exist? What are you going to say that millenniums ago people randomly made up this spiritual being? We have no true knowledge of the past, all we know is the present. We don't even know how the pyramids in Egypt were created and yet you atheists want to come tell us how humans and life were created? Give me a break. You say we believe in a fairy tale but evaluate yourself first. You believe in fairy tales too. The fairy tale of the big bang theory, the fairy tale of evolution, etc. Look at your own body. It is the most perfect and most complex thing of anything on this planet. But what created it? A big bang of energy that came out of nothing? How can there be energy when there is nothing? Yes we have a heart that pumps our blood, a brain that stimulates our senses, but how do these organs have the effect and function that they do? We have a soul, we are not robots. If science was truly the answer to everything, then with science we can build and create our own human beings. We would be able to build hearts, create blood, build a liver, but we can't. We can't reproduce any part of the human body but yet us humans are so intellectual to the point where we can believe because of science God doesn't exist? With science, we can only build robots, not humans. God created everything, but you guys call everything science.

 

What are you going to say that how does God let all these poor children starve and die? Well no. It is the ATHEIST politicians and billionaires that let these children starve. All the problems of the world are our own fault. Mainly the atheists who run our world. God simply put us on this earth and gave us free will. What we did with that free will? Look at the world today. God didn't make Africa or Latin America full of starvation and disease. The British and Europeans did when they invaded. God didn't put homeless people in our society. The way us humans set up our laws and society did that. God gave us free will.

 

Are you going to tell me about the theory of evolution where we all started out as monkeys and then turned into neanderthals and then kept fucking each other until we became the intellectual and rational beings that we are today? But yet us believers are the ones who believe in fairy tales? There's millions of monkey's and billions of humans, but where are the beings in between? Evolution my ass. Bring me a monkey and let him have sex with other monkeys until a  human is born and then I'll believe you. Until then your fairy tale sounds as stupid to me as mine does to you. We were made in the image of the Lord, that is why it is humans who dominate the earth. Not monkeys or pigs or cows. God put humans on the earth and gave the earth and all its resources to use as we please. At first, we respected this and only took from the earth what we needed. But in the age where atheism grew large, that is when we became greedy. That is when people began to die for material wealth.

 

You think we sound stupid? Look at yourselves. The truth is, the people who truly run the world are atheists. They try to make you lose your faith so that we forget God's teachings and values and to most people it works. When you pray to God, you don't ask for specific things and expect him to grant them to you. God doesn't work like that, he is not a genie. You have to think of all the things that you're truly blessed to have that God has given you, and 99% of the time the good in our life overrides the bad. Everyone that is reading this has enough to eat, enough to live, enough to do whatever we want.  We all have bad things in our life, some a lot worse than others. For many people I can understand why they lose faith in God because of their experiences. God gives his strongest battles to the strongest soldiers. There is always light at the end of the tunnel.

 

We can say that God is dead. But we killed God. We killed God because we live a in comfortable home only because others in different continents live in poverty. Without them, we would not have our luxuries that we have today. We killed God because a sweater that has Gucci or Louis Vuitton stamped on it is worth more than a regular sweater that are only meant to keep us warm. We killed God because when we get rich, we spend our money on diamonds and cars while there are people dying on the other side of the world. We killed God because our society is built on individual happiness rather than the collective happiness of everyone. We live in a world where we only care about ourselves, and as long as we are fine then someone else dying of hunger isn't our problem. But yet if we were that person dying of hunger we would be wishing for help. But that help will never come, why? Because atheist politicians and billionaires gotta make their cash. God died a long time ago. God exists, just not in our society.

"How can you guys say God doesn't exist?" how can you say god exists?

" What are you going to say that millenniums ago people randomly made up this spiritual being?"  Happened throughout history, the Greeks had there own list of gods and beliefs.

"We have no true knowledge of the past, all we know is the present."  We have memory, we remember the past. We also have stories and objects that we pass through generations so we have evidence of what was in the past.

"We don't even know how the pyramids in Egypt were created and yet you atheists want to come tell us how humans and life were created?"  but we believe in an answer that we dont know (just like your belief in god). otherwise its not a belief. Secondly we have texts evidence from the Egyptian times giving hints to how it was done 

"Give me a break. You say we believe in a fairy tale but evaluate yourself first."  Because after all it is just a story, they doubt it, there is no reason for them to believe its real. why do you place yourself in the shoes of other people? they understand things differently

"You believe in fairy tales too."  Most Atheists only believe in what gives enough reason to believe in. other than that they stick to what they can be assure of.

"The fairy tale of the big bang theory, the fairy tale of evolution, etc. Look at your own body. It is the most perfect and most complex thing of anything on this planet. But what created it? A big bang of energy that came out of nothing? How can there be energy when there is nothing? Yes we have a heart that pumps our blood, a brain that stimulates our senses, but how do these organs have the effect and function that they do? We have a soul, we are not robots." 

These are simple things we observed... these are the things we have found and made an interpretation of, if you look at it religion is just human words being relayed, science is whats actually in this universe. Its not an answer to your belief... its irrelevant

"If science was truly the answer to everything, then with science we can build and create our own human beings. We would be able to build hearts, create blood, build a liver, but we can't. We can't reproduce any part of the human body but yet us humans are so intellectual to the point where we can believe because of science God doesn't exist? With science, we can only build robots, not humans. God created everything, but you guys call everything science."

Actually you are trying to answer something you don't know. Science is a subject, it is the observation of the contents of this universe, it isn't answering your question it is simply knowledge, something there...

"What are you going to say that how does God let all these poor children starve and die? Well no. It is the ATHEIST politicians and billionaires that let these children starve. All the problems of the world are our own fault. Mainly the atheists who run our world. God simply put us on this earth and gave us free will. What we did with that free will? Look at the world today. God didn't make Africa or Latin America full of starvation and disease. The British and Europeans did when they invaded. God didn't put homeless people in our society. The way us humans set up our laws and society did that. God gave us free will." 

lol gotta love people fighting their own doubt in an argument/statement. you questioned if god was real and then fought the doubt away, probably shouldn't question your beliefs.

"You think we sound stupid? Look at yourselves. The truth is, the people who truly run the world are atheists."

The people who run this world probably know the truth about what we are, if you want to hear one of my beliefs atleast. 

"They try to make you lose your faith so that we forget God's teachings and values and to most people it works."

They also gave you the belief, it depends on how you look at it. I don't think they try to take the belief away i think that you are looking at the fact that not everyone believes in something they've been told. Their objective is not to take away your belief (most people i should say)

When you pray to God, you don't ask for specific things and expect him to grant them to you. God doesn't work like that, he is not a genie. You have to think of all the things that you're truly blessed to have that God has given you, and 99% of the time the good in our life overrides the bad. Everyone that is reading this has enough to eat, enough to live, enough to do whatever we want.  We all have bad things in our life, some a lot worse than others. For many people I can understand why they lose faith in God because of their experiences. God gives his strongest battles to the strongest soldiers. There is always light at the end of the tunnel."  

Beautifully put.

"We can say that God is dead. But we killed God. We killed God because we live a in comfortable home only because others in different continents live in poverty. Without them, we would not have our luxuries that we have today. We killed God because a sweater that has Gucci or Louis Vuitton stamped on it is worth more than a regular sweater that are only meant to keep us warm. We killed God because when we get rich, we spend our money on diamonds and cars while there are people dying on the other side of the world. We killed God because our society is built on individual happiness rather than the collective happiness of everyone. We live in a world where we only care about ourselves, and as long as we are fine then someone else dying of hunger isn't our problem. But yet if we were that person dying of hunger we would be wishing for help. But that help will never come, why? Because atheist politicians and billionaires gotta make their cash. God died a long time ago. God exists, just not in our society."

a sense of the right things to do doesn't have to be associated with god. Because we care for one another we try and help the ones in need. Atheists aren't evil, studies actually have shown that they have a better sense of compassion towards people, They do things because people are in need of help not because they believe its the right thing to do. if you want pm me and i'll send you the studies of this.

 

Stop victimizing the situation, that's all i can say. Your idea towards the situation is more negative than it actually is.

I dont thing you read what I said.  

 

Quote

If he created everything around us, everything we see and do not see, and one of those foundational principles of the universe is that everything must have a cause, it still does not mean that the creator is affected by it. Creator > Creation. So therefore the creator does not necessarily need to have something that caused it to come into existence. He/She/It is not subject to the laws of his/her/its own creation

I dont think you read what he said, he says we don't have an answer but the fact is that we are looking at whats there instead of an idea in our mind to find the answer. You conclude a creator but the only evidence is your imagination. We don't state you are wrong we simply choose to look in a different direction.

Edited January 2, 201412 yr by LifezHatred

While I know not of why the universe exists, how it came to exist, or for how long it will exist, I do not believe in any god. It is my personal belief that God is a man-made idea. I'd love to know the truth about the universe, but until then I have no motivation or reason to believe what I consider to be fairy tales.