BiggBoss420

I don't understand... EXACTLY, you just answered my question, I should blindly trust someone. In case you didn't know that's a common fallacy people fall into as a trap ( Blind Loyalty). And you know what you are right he doesn't have to explain himself, but it looks like he tried to. Anyways I don't have a negative opinion of him, actually, I think he's probably fairly intelligent( I like OS Bot and have been writing bots from time to time, and come across his posts every once in a while and they are usually helpful ), he just can't explain himself clearly, but that doesn't mean he's not correct. But in order to convince someone like me, a position of superiority doesn't just do the trick. Maybe there is a post you could point me in, and be like "haha stupid idiot, we answered this already in X", and you know what I would do, I would read that, and if I was happy with the answers laid out there I would be done and agree, and go, "oh mouse movement really doesn't matter.", But I don't know about any post at any time in history. Why does it matter if he's been actively protesting anti-ban for 15 years, if he never made a argument as to why it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how long he's been doing it, that doesn't make him right (The Appeal to Tradition) Also sorry for using logical fallacies, it's a little dumb, and you can probably point out 20 in me, but I just wanted to explain my side and why I disagreed. See I explained, now you can understand me, but @Alek hasn't. And yeah, you are right, that's what he said, he stated that SendInput was detectable, but that didn't answer the question at hand, read my initial post I explain this. Yikes, that is not a good response, can't you see what you are saying. Yes, I'm way more qualified to talk about detection and hacking than you. I wrote public aimbots and sold them for 2 years (Paladins, CSGO, Day of Infamy - all with my own custom updaters and AOB scanners), I'm fluent in MASM32 (x86 assembly), and I've disassembled more PEs, bypassing more DRMs and anticheat software than you have. = What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo. Honestly the resemblance is uncanny, anyone reading this that is okay with this should read up on Cognitive bias, this is no way anyone with any sense of power, or a trusted member on a forum should treat someone who has only been trying to help. That's the sad part, he's only trying to help the community, he's not attacking anyone, he could of just left and then nothing would of happened, and by posting something like this you may of just cemented your goal. You should be happy that people are testing your knowledge, not upset that they don't blindly trust you. Blind trust leads to the downfall of so many great communities, and it's sad to see that happening here... And then you actually make a decent argument, giving evidence as to why you think SendInput is detectable by Jagex, let me outline. 1. Sendinput is used in other windows auto-clickers 2. Other windows autoclickers are detectable by Jagex 3. Sendinput is detectable A decent argument, and with that Jagex post, honestly you might be right. But if I don't understand there were some points that asdttt made about delay playing a factor, and that Jagex can't poll that data from your mouse. If you could show me evidence that Jagex could find SendInput ( write a code snippet yourself, or link to one, find in the game code, or other ), then I would be 100% more keen to agree with you. But guess what that doesn't ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND. Why are mouse movement's futile, why should I blindly trust you o great one. Why does jagex have all this code, just to throw ignorant people like me off track? Can you answer this, because at this point it looks like you've given up and just expect us to agree based on your superiority.

This is indeed a little disheartening to see, to be honest I didn't read through the github sample's to see how the code is getting sent, and I have no idea about what SendInput is, but it seems like that argument just distracted from the main point. Anyways, from I take you are saying, cut me some slack here, is that Jagex is taking mouse data collected at like 50ms, they slam that shit together, and then run simple stats on it, you called it mouseDelta or whatever the flip. Why is this unreasonable? I don't understand why this is insane, like if what you are saying is true that it can fit into 1mb for 3 hours, that's not that bad. Right? @Alek you stated previously that bot detection most likely stems from play time, skills trained ect. Wouldn't it be really easy to set a threshold, right, get the least amount of false negatives as possible, then we run the analysis on them to the point where it's like 99.9999% likely they are a bot. Is this unreasonable, why is this impossible. Honestly your responses haven't cleared up anything and your responses to asdttt have been very lackluster. Why wouldn't Jagex do this? I thought I'd look at your initial post Antiban doesn't matter - plain and simple. If you do any research into official claims made by Jagex, you can see why. They claim that both autoclickers and simulated mouse keys are detectable, and yes people do get banned for using them. For an autoclicker, the mouse doesn't move at all (don't get me started on pseudo number random generators for sleep time). So you state auto clickers and simulated mouse keys are detectable, maybe they have other behavior that makes them detectable. Gary's Hood and AutoHotKey are detected, both which use SendInput - which is Windows API. My thoughts are that they are just checking the stacktrace of mouse events and determining their source. So you think they are using SendInput... Ok that's great, asdttt has laid our proof and evidence towards his theory, you just state this without anything backing it at all. Additionally a while back they determined that HD clients are indistinguishable from botting clients, which also makes me believe they are looking at the garbage collector. Ok fair enough maybe they are but that doesn't have to do with the argument at hand But of course, go play around with antiban like everyone else has for the last 15 years - I'm really pessimistic in your results (nothing personal, but it's really a naiive approach). Then you insult him saying he's taking a naive approach. But isn't that just following Occam's razor? Then later on you guys get into a argument that made me want to jump off a bridge and die, and made me realize that I was wasting my time on a forum when I could be playing awesome games with cool hentai girls that like me for who I am ( btw I am cool and am 21 and can drink and drive [ not the driving part ] ) Oh sorry did I get off topic? My bad... Sorry to waste your time anyways... Because you're using SendInput... all Windows API functions can be hooked and detected. Look into JNI/JNA (Java). Please don't say something is undetected/hardware call when you're using a usermode public Windows API function call. You kept saying.. Ugh... Gary's Hood is literally using SendInput as well. Yes your mouse is detected because you can hook onto the windows hook chain and monitor for input thats generated by a real device vs those injected by application code - aka using SendInput directly like you are then he gives you a counter argument There's ZEROO evidence Jagex checks mouse clicks from a low level point. BUT, there is evidence they do from a HIGH level point. That point being the delay between press and release, and a few other minor details. (Which the majority of autoclickers have a delay of 0) Response Your. Autoclicker. Is. The. Same. As. Most. Autoclickers. You. Are. Using. SendInput. After that you no longer replied. He gave evidence, counter arguments, and in the end you just said the same thing over and over getting caught up about auto clickers being detectable by SendInput ( Again I don't know what the heck that is ). So to wrap up into a conclusion, can you argue his intial claims atleast can you explain why they are untrue, you just stated that they most likely detect using SendInput, why? He has code, he has evidence, can you give us that. Can you give a counter-argument, because just insulting him and going haha no stupid it's this other thing, why are you suddenly right? The truth is your not, you've done nothing to back up your claims. The only real arguments you gave were Jagex claimed they can catch autoclickers and simulated mouse keys. He gave responses to this and then you got caught up in the argument about SendInput ( what is that anyways?). Really what you need to do is disprove or make some sort of counter argument why his data is incorrect, or that Jagex does not use mouse movement as a factor in bot banning. If you are going to say that anti-ban is useless you need to be able to back it up, why should I blindly trust you? Additionally you could make a argument how Jagex detect's SendInput, if they are, is it in the code like asdttt showed with his mouse capturing. I would be more keen to believe you then, because yes, then capturing mouse movements would be pretty useuless if they could just detect fake mouse inputs, then it's pretty easy to detect a bot now isn't it, no need to grab data ect. I get what your going for but you do nothing to help your case at all. Lastly I want to say that if Jagex has the code, why not use it? Maybe they are tracking SendInput, but why not also just use the mouse tracking code as given here, asdttt gave us anecdotal evidence that it worked for him, I mean if you trust him it's pretty likely that it had a effect based on just the statistics he stated, it would be really lucky for some reason for him not to get banned after making only changes to the mouse movement. So I think that's everything I really hope you read what I have said and can try and make me understand your side because honestly I can't help but agree more with asdttt with the evidence, and better arguments laid out in this thread. edit: cut out the meat edit2: Don't hate me please edit3: Oh and bro I don't think it's a good idea to host RS's decompiled java code on your github, pretty sure they don't like that haha.

Ehh, this is of course all just speculation ( big bag of bullshit, ignore this ) , and I am assuming your intentions, but I highly doubt having a bot chat will help with anything. To make it decently realistic or unique it would take a lot of time, and memory. I can't really think of a use case for it other than "anti-ban", but just like the video above you will get something similar unless you are clever, and create something like say cleverbot ( ahahahaha i am very funny guy ). But think what Jagex cares about, they probably aren't really monitoring the chat logs as if they were they most likely aren't stripping the text information and checking how realistic it is. If they are just checking chat count ( aka amount of times text is chatted), then you could just chat at the frequency around a human does, but that would be way to easy to develop and Jagex isn't retarded and definitely has some easier ways to catch bots than chat. My point is, if you are thinking that it could be potentially useful antiban... You most likely are wrong, it might decrease your ban rate marginally at best. But again how could I know this, I am just imagining if I was Jagex, maybe you know better than I, and Jagex really is looking at how realistically and how much someone has chatted. But I honestly don't think they even take chat logs into account at all, unless someone reports you chatting and saying something rude. Now don't let that deter you, as a computer science project I think the task is really fun, and creating something that attempts to mimic human speech is very fun, so I really think you should do this if it is something you are interested. I know everything I just said might deter someone, but really it would be great experience, I just want to make sure you understand how I see the usefulness of a chat bot application in RS, I personally am very skeptical, good luck, again please don't let what I said deter you, every line of code you write will help you on your journey of becoming the next Terry A Davis.